Secular Café: Why is cheating amoral?

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Why is cheating amoral? May 1st 2012, 04:34 Personally, I've only cheated once in my life (and it was hardly considered cheating, since the one thing I wrote down on my hand wasn't even on the test), but I've let people cheat off me, and I honestly don't care if I do all the work in a group project. I don't see the big deal. So, as I see it, people think cheating is "wrong" because: a) It's against the rules b) It's unfair c) It hinders learning d) grade inflation But, as far as I'm concerned: a) I understand rules are put in place to prevent society from breaking down, but rules are not absolute, most of them were established by some guy like you or me. Who are we to say what is right and what is wrong? I get that this "no cheating/copying" rule is to protect the livelihood of innovators and artists, but honestly isn't "inspiration" to some extent, copying? Obviously, petty cheating is not the same, but I don't see how copying some kids answers, in any way, endangers the smart kid, and quite frankly, the cheaters that don't get caught are some of the most creative kids I know. The only thing I really get is that it could come across as disrespectful. b)Grades (in high school, non AP courses, though I've never heard of a cheater setting the curve before) are absolute rather than relative, so why does it matter in school? (I get it more in work life, but, more on that later) Unfairness is worthy of it's own discussion, but for the sake of this discussion -- yea, so is life. Unfairness is tolerated all the time. c) Like I said before, the good cheaters are pretty damn creative, and think more outside the box than some of those "smart" kids. Of course, not all cheaters are, and many are just plain lazy. For the sake of argument, I'm talking about the perpetually lazy or just flat out "dumb" ones. Well, then, if that's the case, they'll be screwed in real life, won't they? - Let them scrape out some nice grades in high school. It's just four years (eight if you count college), but the ruse won't last too long. At some point their gaping knowledge holes will be clear. To those who still think cheating is unfair... isn't this what you'd call karma? Plus, force someone not to cheat, does that mean they'll try harder in school? Study more? Maybe, maybe not. At least most of the people I know who cheat a lot, wouldn't've bothered learning the material anyways. d) Seriously? Grades are meager representations of a students true ability. I've know plenty of kids in all AP with A's who don't have a lick of analytically skill. Regurgitation of information gets you pretty damn far in school, but not necessarily in life (though, I guess that can get you pretty far, depending on the type of boss(es) you have and certain professions). Cheating is only a small part of the recent grade inflation, most of it is due to some insane phobia of and failure. I'm not saying I like cheaters, or dislike, them, but in some strange irony, one of my most honest, real friends is a heavy cheaters, and one of the fakest people I know is morally outraged by cheating. So, give me you're reasons or back me up :). I'm curious if I'm just some apathetic, amoral sociopath, or if my argument actually makes any sense. Also, I just want a better understanding of the other side of the argument. Sorry for the length :P

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Secular Café: Lawrence Krauss apologises to philosophers

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Lawrence Krauss apologises to philosophers Apr 28th 2012, 08:38 Well, some of them He has clarified remarks he made in an of the cuff interview here The tl:dr version is that he is sorry that he lumped in philosophers who take empiricism on board with those who haven't, and the latter can go and play with themselves and each other. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...tion-of-philos Quote: ....So, to those philosophers I may have unjustly offended by seemingly blanket statements about the field, I apologize. I value your intelligent conversation and the insights of anyone who thinks carefully about our universe and who is willing to guide their thinking based on the evidence of reality. To those who wish to impose their definition of reality abstractly, independent of emerging empirical knowledge and the changing questions that go with it, and call that either philosophy or theology, I would say this: Please go on talking to each other, and let the rest of us get on with the goal of learning more about nature. Well, quite:) David

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Secular Café: Memory Deletion: Should it be legal?

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Memory Deletion: Should it be legal? Apr 25th 2012, 02:30 http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/0...tingpill/all/1 Another interesting article from Wired. Makes me wonder where humanity will be in the next 20 years. Will we be mindless apes, or a genetically altered super race?

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Secular Café: Forget about the Republicans and Democrats.

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Forget about the Republicans and Democrats. Apr 24th 2012, 08:28 I really get tired of the pettiness of our political system. We set around fighting over the kitchen scraps of our economy while the entire world is suffering from a income imbalance that staggers the mind. Why if we are in a global economy have we not yet concentrated on the world we live in and created an entity, with the teeth and the power to bring order to a world beset by greed, power mongering and poverty. Should the world not stand up for it's citizens, no matter what border they reside in. (1) What should that body be, since The U.N. has not yet succeeded in either stopping the aggression of some countries, even against it's own citizens. We can see that in Syria and North Korea, where the governments completely ignore the needs of it's citizens. (2) what powers should this entity be given to cross international borders to bring contrary countries back into allignment and to secure the safety of the citizens there? Not only from aggression from their governments, but also from criminal elements, if that element has overwhelmed the countries ability to control them, like the pirates of Somalia and the Drug Cartels of Mexico.? (3) How should this body handle the challenges to bring a standard of humanity to a world who has countries determined to remain unequal because of cultural or religious dictates. (4) Would the governments that control the higher economies and industrial might and a stranglehold on power sources ever relinquish their control over their bases of power, so that such resources can be used to bring the rest of the world up and should they, if there are so many tyrants who control these under privileged countries that would abuse those resources.

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Secular Café: The Good Will Hunting Problem

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

The Good Will Hunting Problem Apr 23rd 2012, 16:30 For those of you who have seen the movie Good Will Hunting, here's a question: Does a genius of the highest level (on the level of a Newton or an Einstein) have a moral responsibility to share his or her gifts with humanity? Or, to muddy it even more, do people generally (not just geniuses) have a moral responsibility to develop and use their talents for the good of humanity? Is it moral to waste one's talents by ignoring them, not developing them, or by using them on pursuits that don't improve the human condition in any way?

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Secular Café: The Art of destroying Life!

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

The Art of destroying Life! Apr 22nd 2012, 15:41 I've never understood the need to kill. Though I've thought about accomplishing that feat on those who were responsible for causing others harm and hurt, but I don't think I could follow through. Even when I get into a physical fight, even when I was winning it, I always tried to finish it, without really hurting the other person. I guess I get let my elephant mouth overwhelms my pigeon chest, when I rant about hurting others. i just wonder if people are so stuck on themselves or their causes, that they would violently remove anyone from the face of the world? Should revenge or fear be any more a reason to kill than any other excuse? Is the state any more able to justify removing a person from existence than a private citizen? Is there virtue in taking a convicted person's life and would it be a matter of justice or a matter of revenge for the original transgression?

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Secular Café: What is the point in being?

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

What is the point in being? Apr 21st 2012, 02:21 Why is it that we appear out of nowhere, stumble through life, just to leave it at the very point, in time that all we've worked for are coming to fruition. It's like being a battery that runs like a bat out of hell, when we first appear, but as time wears on we slowly degrade until we run out of life and end up buried in the ground. Why are we here, if that which we learn is most times ignored and only a select group of people are awarded for their efforts, by having them documented in history books to be revised years latter by those unfamiliar with any of us. Is the continuation of the human race so vital, since we do so little for the environment we live in or those creatures we share it with. All we have ever done is devour that which we could and manipulate that which we can't. I ask again. What's the point?

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Secular Café: Sex With Your Sibling

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Sex With Your Sibling Apr 19th 2012, 14:48 "Imagine for a second that a brother and sister are on vacation. They are alone, and there is no chance that they will be seen by anyone else. They both engage, consensually, in kissing, which leads to sexual intercourse. The brother and sister used protection, so there is [virtually] no risk of pregnancy or disease. Both agree that it was an enjoyable experience, but that they wouldn't want to do it again." This article from Psychology Today nicely summarizes a question that moral psychologist Jon Haidt has been asking people of different cultures for decades. This is part of the work that culminates in his recent book The Righteous Mind, which I highly recommend as one of the most well-researched, cohesive accounts of moral psychology I've read. In most cultures, as many as 65% answer that it would be wrong for siblings to have sexual intercourse. Haidt argues that this stems from our our evolved sense of "moral purity." Most liberally-minded atheists tend to see the world, Haidt argues, solely in terms of "care" and "fairness", and so wouldn't see any harm in siblings having consensual sex. But we're definitely in the minority on that view, as most cultures see morality in terms of five distinct principles, namely "care," "fairness," "loyalty," "authority," and "purity." Do you think it's moral to have sexual relations with a sibling? Or is it immoral? If, like most secularists, you say "no harm, no foul," how do you justify your view?

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Secular Café: Movies and Philosophy

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Movies and Philosophy Apr 17th 2012, 17:16 I have a group of students at my school who are interested in creating a Philosophy Club next year. I'm going to sponsor it, as I have done in years past. But this time I don't want to limit the club to simple lectures, readings, and then discussion. I'd like to use three or four films during the year to get them thinking about various issues. Does anybody have recommendations for good movies that might teach interesting philosophical ideas? I'd thought maybe the following: Gattaca - cloning, "identity", state authority, Blade Runner - Cloning/Replication, justified killing, mortality The Matrix - reality vs. perception, technology/AI/philosophy of mind Any ideas?

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Secular Café: Is it really sexist?

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Is it really sexist? Apr 12th 2012, 01:42 A lot of people maintain that a remark such as "Nice ass" to a female is sexist/misogynistic, but I can't see how it inherently is.

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Secular Café: The theft of charity

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

The theft of charity Apr 11th 2012, 07:50 I've seen more reports on people scamming others, by falsely reaching out to others because of some illness that never was. I've heard of a women that was using her daughter to gain money, by faking the little girl was a cancer victim and now this. http://www.chron.com/news/article/Wo...ng-3470805.php Should people who prey on the emotions of other receive harsher sentences, because of the degrading effect on the willingness other others to help? The theft of charity

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Secular Café: Loss

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

Loss Apr 8th 2012, 22:41 ... we all experience loss of various forms but coping with loss also takes many forms. I once preferred the head in the sand approach until I realised that I had to come up for air at some stage and I'd still have lost the someone or something that once was mine.

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Secular Café: What is really real? Memory modification...

Secular Café Discuss philosophical concepts and moral issues.

What is really real? Memory modification... Apr 8th 2012, 12:22 (If this should be in a different sub-forum please move as appropriate) Quote: Everybody Is Stupid Except You The truth about learning and memory. by Nate Kornell Ph.D. The Fatal Flaw of the Storyteller Your memory changes every time you tell a story. Published on March 27, 2012 by Nate Kornell, Ph.D. in Everybody Is Stupid Except You A recent New York Times series revealed a lot about Apple's manufacturing process in China. Although the articles were fascinating, they weren't full of drama or poignant moments. They weren't stories. This American Life ran the opposite sort of story. Mike Daisey, a storyteller adopting the guise of a journalist, told about his own investigation of Apple. His story was chock full of dramatic moments. It was also full of lies. To their credit, This American Life put together an amazing show chronicling in graphic detail what went wrong. In part, it came down to a he-said she-said problem. Daisey admits that parts of his story aren't true (at least the way normal people define true). But there are other elements he claims are true. His translator, who was with him the whole time, says they are false. For example, he says he spoke to a factory worker who said she was 13 years old. He also says she spoke to him in English. His translator says none of the workers said they were 13 and none of them (on this day at least) spoke in English. Who to Trust? These events took place two years ago, so both parties have had plenty of time to forget. Mr. Daisey also has a reason to lie, and a track record of doing so. But let's assume Mr. Daisey really believes what he is (now) saying. We have one person (Mr. Daisey) who has spent two years developing and telling this story over and over again, and one (his translator) who hasn't thought about it at all. So who should we trust? Mike Daisey has been rehearsing and strengthening his memories for years; he's basically been studying the story. The intuitive answer is he should remember it more accurately. This intuitive answer is wrong. .... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...he-storyteller

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